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Registered: 12-15-2007
brandon
0

Any data to support this?  All the data (third party revi...




Just a note in relation to the post below; we found that the frame rate increase across the GTS versus the GT to be well worth it whether you're gaming on a 19", a 20", a 22" or a 24". For the difference in price, the performance increase is worth it and future proofing your system above and beyond the lesser-powered GT is a good idea.

Message Edited by Graham on 12-15-2007 01:26 PM

Any data to support this?  All the data (third party reviews conducted by non-vendors) I've seen shows the GTS to be faster than the GT, but not enough to make a difference in most cases.  You pretty much are limited to the same resolutions and quality settings with the GT and GTS.
 
Take a look at this page:
 
If the GT didn't exist and the GTS was the only new nVidia product, I'd say it was a great buy, but comparing it to the GT, it's not a good buy.  The GTS has a big price premium compared to the returns (vs the GT).  If for example you want to play Bioshock at 1920x1200 and the GT couldn't get playable framerates and the GTS could, then I'd recommend the GTS.  But the GT in this case gets 52FPS and the GTS gets 55FPS.  Is it worth it to buy the GTS in this case?  NOPE.  Looking at other games and other resolutions, this conclusion plays through.
 
But anyway, Graham, please feel free to contribute some testing results.  If you can find contrary data, I'm sure users and consumers alike wouldn't mind taking a look at it to make an informed purchasing decision.  And for reference, the 8800GTS 512MB pricing that FS has (currently at $340 on sale) is pretty decent.
Emerging Expert
Posts: 78
Registered: 09-06-2007
coolme
0

I think Futureshop is heading in the right direction with...

[ Edited ]
I think Futureshop is heading in the right direction with product reviews, if Futureshop can build credibility with its consumers as an reliable source for technology reviews. They can link product reviews to the product page from here, but as of right now, there are some issues that needs to be corrected to make it happen.


Graham wrote:
After securing some serious stock we pulled one from the line-up and put it through its paces. From unboxing to installation to a rather lengthy (all-night) round of testing at the Future Shop labs, we checked out every inch of the 512MB Alpha Dog. The results were impressive, satisfying and even slightly surprising.


Your so called full review has no mentions about previous gen 8800GTS, no screen shots of any of the testing, no detailed testing information regarding to any of the tests you've ran with the games you've listed, no information about your test system, not even pictures of the card and its package! In your review, you simply tossed a few game titles and mixed it with a few cliches and called the card a masterpiece. Hate to break it to you, but no one's clapping for you.

The main problem in this review is that roughly 90% of it is more or less pure opinion with nothing solid to back it up. In particular, there are several terms you tossed around that needed more clarification.


Graham wrote:
The results were impressive, satisfying and even slightly surprising.


What 'results' were impressive? What 'results' were satisfying? What 'results' were surprising? I fail to find an answer to any of these questions throughout the review.


Graham wrote:
with a little elbow grease and the right rig you can stretch that gap further.

Results? Numbers? Screenshots? Temps?


Graham wrote:
The breakdown between the cards is pretty apparent. Although you'll pay a bit more of the GTS 512MB, you're getting a serious bump across the board. The GTS packs more punch and will put up bigger numbers for you for longer; it's the definition of a good investment.

What's a bit more? $200 more? $2 more?
BTW, the 512 GTS has only 62GB/s of memory bandwidth, not 64 like the original GTS.
Longer? As in it will eventually put up smaller numbers in the future? The shaders will eventually decide to 'retire' in the future?
Save the opinions for the conclusion, believe it or not, it will actually make you sound less bias.


Graham wrote:
Installing the card was a snap - a word of warning: make sure your power supply is up to the task. Though the core requirements from Nvidia recommend a 350-450w supply for the base card but you're going to want to be running at least a 600w for success with the more robust Alpha Dog. Seriously.

Have you got any evidence to prove nVidia's power recommendations as ill advised? "Seriously." doesn't make you any more creditable than pulling facts out of thin air.


Graham wrote:
If you're used to tweaking your cards you're going to want to pull your own drivers and utilities. There's a bit of leeway in performance on this one if you've got the skill so feel free to have some fun

Again. Results? Numbers? Screenshots? Temps?


Graham wrote:
The card simply flies under both XP and Vista. DX10 performance is fantastic, with smooth frame rates and zero stuttering.

Everything you've said above is subjective. Simply flies in both windows XP and vista... what flies in both xp and vista? Framerates? Resolution? Driver version? Temps? Settings? setup? Would it kill you if you just posted 3dmark numbers at the very least? Define smooth frame rates, what constitutes smooth framerates? What framrates constitudes zero stuttering?


Graham wrote:
There isn't a system on the planet that can run Crysis maxed out, but you can get a pretty sweet looking game going with a single GTS 512MB.

No, but what settings will make it run at 60fps?. WTF is pretty sweet looking game? Sounds lame.


Graham wrote:
Company of Heroes runs like butter on the GTS 512MB. Frame rates were steady and the game didn't run into any tearing, smearing or hiccups.

How'd you convert "like butter" to framerates? Again, what resolution did you run the game at? 1024x768? What settings did you run it at?


Graham wrote:
Lost Planet, Supreme Commander and Crysis all stepped up; each game was sharp with solid frame rates (For the record: do not max out your settings on Crysis. You may tear a hole in the space time continuum. That's not cool.)

Meaning what? You had a solid 10fps throughout those games?


Graham wrote
With the XFX GeForce 8800GTS 512MB Alpha Dog Edition you know it's money well spent - this is a full featured card, with a lot of bang for your buck and a fantastic price.

Is there anything tangible you can use to back that up?


Graham wrote
It's a performance increase that's worth every penny.

I see a hardware improvement as you pointed out, but where's the performance increase? Did I some how miss your attempt to show the differences between the gt and the 512 gts? Because I don't see it, have you tested the gt at all?


Graham wrote
Just a note in relation to the post below; we found that the frame rate increase across the GTS versus the GT to be well worth it whether you're gaming on a 19", a 20", a 22" or a 24". For the difference in price, the performance increase is worth it and future proofing your system above and beyond the lesser-powered GT is a good idea.

Where is the data? or are you pulling this out of nowhere?
Resolution is different than screen size. A monitor with the same resolution as another but differ in screen size will put the same amount of stress on a video card as the second monitor. However, a monitor (independent of size) with a grater resolution will put more stress on the same video card. Please make note of what you are actually trying to imply. (varying resolution rather than varying screen size)

Overall, this review lacks professionalism (people are getting paid for this? Even amature reviews (who enjoys only fame for their work) are better than this!) and is pretty bias because it's filled with opinions from the author of the review and there are no tangible numbers to back observations and opinions. If reviews here are ever going to fly, it has to be much less opinionated with much more numbers and a certain level of professionalism involved.

Message Edited by coolme on 12-16-2007 10:50 PM
Recognized Expert
Posts: 303
Registered: 12-01-2007
NateTaylor
0

While I agree with some of what you're saying, your tone...

While I agree with some of what you're saying, your tone is fairly poor. Future Shop is at least trying. They are beginning to offer real enthusiast solutions, at good prices. They are trying to build a community (albeit the current rules limit it). Graham as far as I know, is not an employee of Future Shop. I could be wrong here, but I think he is just a community member?


So instead of blasting his review, why don't you offer the information that would be required to make this a better review.
Emerging Expert
Posts: 78
Registered: 09-06-2007
coolme
0

From his tone in his replies, he sure sounds like the a f...

[ Edited ]
From his tone in his replies, he sure sounds like the a futureshop/futureshop-related employee, but I could be wrong, in which case I guess my viewpoints about his 'review' is invalid.

The thing that really ticks me off about all this is the denial tone in Grahams' replies, he obviously thinks there is nothing wrong with his review (which can be more appropriately described as a blurb of his opinion about the 512mb 8800GTS). All that denial simply means future reviews from Graham will simply be a short opinioned blurb about the product in question.

Also, I've repeatedly provided feedback based on the core elements that all good reviews need. Professionalism, integrity, honesty, are all things that good reviews earn from the reader, this review clearly does not earn any professionalism, or integrity, or honesty from anyone.

Message Edited by coolme on 12-16-2007 11:30 PM
Contributor
Posts: 14
Registered: 12-15-2007
brandon
0

This edit is supposed to refute my posts?  I don't get it...



Edit:

Just a note in relation to the post below; we found that the frame rate increase across the GTS versus the GT to be well worth it whether you're gaming on a 19", a 20", a 22" or a 24". For the difference in price, the performance increase is worth it and future proofing your system above and beyond the lesser-powered GT is a good idea.

Message Edited by Graham on 12-15-2007 01:26 PM

This edit is supposed to refute my posts?  I don't get it.  I know you're claiming this, you've been doing it throughout all your replies to me.  BUT the problem is that you don't provide any data to back up your claim.  coolme was right in saying that monitor size makes NO difference, it's all about resolution.  When I talk about monitor size, I refer to the monitor's native resolution.  So basically, you're telling me that a 25% increase in price is worth a 10% increase in performance (average)?
 
C'mon, give us something tangible to work with here.  Maybe your testing was off?  What was the configuration of the test system?
Emerging Expert
Posts: 118
Registered: 11-25-2007
jamaylott
0

*eager to view the newest hot thread, dave eddi curls his...

[ Edited ]
*eager to view the newest hot thread, dave eddi curls his baby girl into the bottle during the routine morning feed and opens the topic.*
 
you know, its kind of bewildering to read so much blam about this one product.  Futureshop is making an honest attempt to put out some decent product reviews, and their choices have been pretty solid.
 
I understand the frustration some of you feel; at times it may seem like the person doing the review is endorsed by the product, and therefore trying to sell it to the reader.
 
but the fact is, that this card is acctually a great piece of equipment and a little bit of respect in the discussion of the rebuttling opinions would be appreciated by myself and other readers.
 
 
 


Message Edited by jamaylott on 12-17-2007 09:01 AM
best of luck
dave eddi
IPG product Expert
Victoria, #10
Contributor
Posts: 14
Registered: 12-15-2007
brandon
0

I feel that Futureshop loses credibility when it can't ba...

[ Edited ]


jamaylott wrote:
 
you know, its kind of bewildering to read so much blam about this one product.  Futureshop is making an honest attempt to put out some decent product reviews, and their choices have been pretty solid.
 
I understand the frustration some of you feel; at times it may seem like the person doing the review is endorsed by the product, and therefore trying to sell it to the reader.
 
but the fact is, that this card is acctually a great piece of equipment and a little bit of respect in the discussion of the rebuttling opinions would be appreciated by myself and other readers.

I feel that Futureshop loses credibility when it can't back up its claims, or even answer questions with some hard data instead of subjective comments.  I believe Graham is either a Futureshop employee or paid for marketing for FS.  The pictures in his post are hosted by Futureshop's server (like http://www.futureshop.ca/marketing/misc/videoheader.jpg), and are in standard Futureshop formatting style.  As the seller of the product being reviewed, Futureshop needs to do a better job at reviewing that product with hard proof, even moreso than a third party reviewer.  It needs to do this to overcome the image of this review being any more than a biased advertisement.
 
If Futureshop is trying so hard to provide decent product reviews, then take your customers comments at heart and actually act on them.  I haven't been disrespectful in any of my other posts in this thread, and the replies I have been getting concerning it have had no substance other than saying "you're wrong" to me.  A review like this gives Futureshop the image of "shady used car salesperson".
 
To throw one out to left field, why doesn't Futureshop sponsor a third party computer hardware review magazine or site.  Lots of other retailers do this, and it may even help bring FS closer to the enthusiast community.  What do you think of this?  Let me know.
 
And I'm not saying that the 8800GTS 512MB is a bad product (it's actually good), but with FS selling other competing products, why should a consumer buy the 8800GTS instead of for example, the GT?  The GT is only marginally slower, and it's a lot cheaper.
 
EDIT:
 
Look at this thread on your own forums:
 
Another potential customer dismissing buying the 8800GTS 512MB suggested by Graham again.


Message Edited by brandon on 12-17-2007 10:33 AM
Contributor
Posts: 21
Registered: 07-12-2007
chrispycrunch
0

You need to add to the cost decent cooling for the 8800GT...

You need to add to the cost decent cooling for the 8800GT that FS is selling. The original 8800GT comes with a less efficient (smaller fan) cooler. IT is very loud at 100% load. The new ones (made by leadtek and xfx) have less noise but I do not believe FS is selling them.
Contributor
Posts: 14
Registered: 12-15-2007
brandon
0

Some other brands have this too, it's for all 8800GT's th...

[ Edited ]


chrispycrunch wrote:
You need to add to the cost decent cooling for the 8800GT that FS is selling. The original 8800GT comes with a less efficient (smaller fan) cooler. IT is very loud at 100% load. The new ones (made by leadtek and xfx) have less noise but I do not believe FS is selling them.

Some other brands have this too, it's for all 8800GT's that they're selling though.  I know BFG and eVGA have bigger fans on the newly manufacturered 8800GT's.  I'll post whether or not my eVGA 8800GT 512MB has the new bigger fan on it.  I ordered it from FS, it should be here today or tomorrow.  We'll see how new the stock is at FS.
 
EDIT: My eVGA 8800GT 512MB from FS has the new bigger (and quieter) fan.


Message Edited by brandon on 12-18-2007 04:22 AM
Contributor
Posts: 14
Registered: 12-15-2007
brandon
0

So what do Futureshop employees think of suggestions for...

So what do Futureshop employees think of suggestions for future Futureshop 'full reviews' that were made in this thread?